Hard water? Slickness killer?

Can hard water be a lather slickness killer? I have been straight shaving for over 3 years and moved to a new spot less than a year ago. Here is what I usually do before a shave.

I get home after a run
take a shower
leaving the water on my face
get to the sink re apply more hot water
load brush build lather on my face add more water the lather is a little runny but stable
go to shave and wham the blade won’t plow through the beard hair feels tuggy
wipe off lather add more water and a small amount of shave oil
re apply lather
we are now back on track smooth and keen shaving and I have no idea what just happened???

Can’t understand what the heck is going on but the blade feels dull but isn’t proven by the shave oil. Maybe my skin type could be too tacky? So maybe the hard water is killing the slickness?

Try with bottled water, just to see.

I thought perhaps it could be that you were still sweating from the run/hot shower and that could be causing the lack of slickness. I typically don't shave after a shower as I find my shaves are never as good for me personally, but I assume that this is your normal routine.

It's a strange one for sure especially since you have been doing this for a good while now. Has anything else changed in the routine? Maybe it was just an off day, it happens. I tried a new soap a while back and had the same issues, I thought that the blade was dull, but had the same issues the next time that soap came round in my rotation. So many things can cause the shave to go south, and everyone is different.

Good luck with this and I hope you get to the bottom of it.

Hard water can do a lot to some soaps. You didn't mention if you have the same soap/cream you've been using, or if this is a different/new soap.

There's a thread around here about hard water, let me see if I can find it

EDIT: Just type in "hard water" in th esearch box in the upper right corner of the page. It will give you links to several threads about it here

When I first got into wet shaving with a DE I went crazy buying artisan shave soap, mainly because of the scents they offered. I never even once thought about slickness in a soap. So I have many different soaps I rotate but mostly from the same 4 or so artisans?

It is entirely possible that I have been shaving sub par this whole time and yet still excited not knowing there is better because it is still that much better than shaving with a cartridge or electric shaver!

Wanted to add I don't have any issues making a thick luxurious lather btw, it's just not slick...

I will check out those threads thank you...

In my opinion, soaps that are good for shaving with a DE, may not be the best for SR shaving. Not saying that they are not good soaps, just not the best for every style of wet shaving.

Take a look at Obie’s thread on top tier soaps. Anything in the first tier will give you a great shave with slickness and cushion

I will definitely check that out Dieseld! I don't want to waste the several soap towers I have it the cabinet though. Since the shave oil worked so well and it is easy in my opinion to apply it would make sense to keep using it until it's time to buy some more soap stock?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dshaves

I will definitely check that out Dieseld! I don't want to waste the several soap towers I have it the cabinet though. Since the shave oil worked so well and it is easy in my opinion to apply it would make sense to keep using it until it's time to buy some more soap stock?

---

Good thinking and with the money saved you could buy more razors! :tu

I won’t argue that in any way. If it works for you, then go for it!!
There’s a lot of great stuff in that thread, so much it hurts the wallet :roflmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Porl

Good thinking and with the money saved you could buy more razors! :tu

---

If I could like your post twice I would lol!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dieseld

I won’t argue that in any way. If it works for you, then go for it!!
There’s a lot of great stuff in that thread, so much it hurts the wallet :roflmao

---

Wallet pain is what I am afraid of lol!

Well it only hurts when you spend it :rofl2:

Before I got a serious water softener installation I did find that hard water made things a little more difficult / less pleasant than it does now
When I came out of a shower my skin felt so dry and just bad overall, it wasn't pleasant to shave with either compared to now in all honesty, it's been a tremendously good investment, my area is known for it's notoriously hard water though

Glad to hear there is a brighter tomorrow! Unfortunately I live in a rental...I also think I just have really dry skin coming out of the show even when I am at a hotel with soft water :thinking:

Possibly, I've had so much less "skin related issues" with a water softener installed, my entire body used to get a little dry and itchy when I got out of the shower before, since the installation I've had exactly 0 problems like I did before, there's something to be said about hard water, it made some creams and soaps a PITA to lather

I can't remember details since it's been a good while, but it definitely made a difference in my experience to where I also used bottled water to lather and shave.

Hard water affects many many things. The only good thing is you get a good supply of minerals for drinking even though it may not taste very good.

Hard water can definitely cause less glide when you shave. If you try shaving with just water and go from hard to soft, shaving with the hard is very difficult to do while with soft the water seems to have some built in lube to it.

By the way I disagree with the idea soaps for a DE might not be good for a straight. It's still a blade and you need the same qualities no matter the appliance you use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

By the way I disagree with the idea soaps for a DE might not be good for a straight. It's still a blade and you need the same qualities no matter the appliance you use.

---

Even after years of shaving with straight razors almost daily, a straight shave still takes me longer than a shave with a safety razor.

If the lather has less staying power, either because of water hardness or the inherent quality of the soap, I found that some soaps that are adequate for a DE shave are clearly less suited for a straight shave.

Regarding water hardness, there also can be too much of a good thing:
In some locations I have experienced exceptionally soft water where it took an effort after the shave to wipe enough soapy slickness off my face and put the aftershave on - although this is admittedly less of an issue than extremely hard water.



B.

I live in a hard water city, and one trick is loading a lot more soap and then go slowly with adding water. It usually takes more water as well, but I've found going slow with adding the water, a bit at a time until you learn the soap, works generally better, otherwise, it's easy to blow out a soap if you do it all at once or in a couple big doses. And some soaps just don't play well--formulations just aren't there for hard water regardless of what you try.

I did have a few soaps that worked OK with DEs but not quite as well with straights when it came to the glide. I have to disagree to a degree with thebigspendur: Surface area of a DE is smaller than a SR and the weight distribution is also different as well, so that changes up things on the physics of how the two tools perform when it comes their friction and distribution of mass. At any rate, one of my criteria for a good soap is that is works well for either a DE or SR when it comes to glide. There are a few soaps that really hit that mark for me. One of my favorites is Castle Forbes--it's slick with either tool, lathers well in hard water, and it makes a nice, thick lather that doesn't break down quickly. Eufros is another good one as well, along with a few others. Obie's Top Tier Soap thread has a gold mine of info. in from a lot of users--use the thread search function if you want to check out a particular soap or cream.

I live in the desert and we have really hard water. Love it for showers! Not the best for lather.

Follow SemperFi's directions above and you will do well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SemperFi

I live in a hard water city, and one trick is loading a lot more soap and then go slowly with adding water. It usually takes more water as well, but I've found going slow with adding the water, a bit at a time until you learn the soap, works generally better, otherwise, it's easy to blow out a soap if you do it all at once or in a couple big doses. And some soaps just don't play well--formulations just aren't there for hard water regardless of what you try.

I did have a few soaps that worked OK with DEs but not quite as well with straights when it came to the glide. I have to disagree to a degree with thebigspendur: Surface area of a DE is smaller than a SR and the weight distribution is also different as well, so that changes up things on the physics of how the two tools perform when it comes their friction and distribution of mass. At any rate, one of my criteria for a good soap is that is works well for either a DE or SR when it comes to glide. There are a few soaps that really hit that mark for me. One of my favorites is Castle Forbes--it's slick with either tool, lathers well in hard water, and it makes a nice, thick lather that doesn't break down quickly. Eufros is another good one as well, along with a few others. Obie's Top Tier Soap thread has a gold mine of info. in from a lot of users--use the thread search function if you want to check out a particular soap or cream.

---

It's on a soap by soap basis.

With many soaps and hard water it almost doesn't matter how much soap you use you will never get good lather.

The old water softener salesmen trick is take some liquid green soap and put a drop into soft water and you get what almost looks like a glass of beer with clear water and a head of suds on it. Do the same with hard water and you get nothing and as you add more and more soap you just get a bluish scum in the water with practically no visible suds. They also take an old cloth you have that's been washed in your washer over and over and they put it in a bottle of soft water and shake it and you have all kinds of visible soap in the water.

As far as soft water goes soft water is soft with no hardness at all. Once you have more than a grain or so it's hard water. it's just a matter of how hard it is.

In my parts we have around 8 grains and that's really hard. We use evaporative coolers and we put a chunk of metal in the water reservoir in the bottom. It's about 4 inches long and an inch and a half thick (solid metal) and in 4 months it's totally gone dissolved by the water. That's to protect the cooler components from being dissolved.

Your observations are spot on the big spender--totally agree--and yep, NM and CO has some really hard water--sounds like yours can break glass! Have had some soaps that just wouldn't work no matter what I tried. Where it gets really annoying is the cost of some of those dogs--Floris 89 soap was a recent example...straight to the trash, didn't even want to use it as shower soap.

when I,m in New Mexico like now, I have found that here you have to chew the water for a bit before you drink it , so yes its kinda hard. after being here for a few weeks or months, my skin is dry and itchy, after a couple of showers at home it all goes away.. also out here I use bottled water to make my lather, I gave up on using local a long time ago. by the way I guess I,m going to have to disagree with you Jay, I think a DE has about the same surface area contacting the face maybe even more. on a straight the only thing on your face is the edge, on a De the edge and a good portion of the cap are in contact with your face.
but the main thing is with hard water its more work to get a decent glide with your soaps Tc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

when I,m in New Mexico like now, I have found that here you have to chew the water for a bit before you drink it , so yes its kinda hard. after being here for a few weeks or months, my skin is dry and itchy, after a couple of showers at home it all goes away.. also out here I use bottled water to make my lather, I gave up on using local a long time ago. by the way I guess I,m going to have to disagree with you Jay, I think a DE has about the same surface area contacting the face maybe even more. on a straight the only thing on your face is the edge, on a De the edge and a good portion of the cap are in contact with your face.
but the main thing is with hard water its more work to get a decent glide with your soaps Tc

---

That's the dust (adobe) in water you be thinking of. It's just adds body.

What part of the state you be in?

Nelson I,m in the southeast corner where all the drilling is going on now. to be exact I,m 52 miles due southwest of Carlsbad looking at the end of the Gaudalupes.

and it could be adobe, I know this much after you fill up your water tank on your rv a few times,, it wont come out the drain till you unclog the grit and caliche dust and dirt from the drain tube. if you shot someone with a water gun with this water you would go to jail for assault with intent to kill Tc

I've got hard water, so have gravitated to soaps that work well in hard water. I'd buy a soap that everybody loves (MWF) and it just wouldn't work for me. I spent 3 years DE shaving and finding my hard water soaps.

When I moved to SRs, I posted this questions about soaps for DEs vs SRs. LINK The consensus was that it didn't matter.

However, I am more in agreement of those on this thread that say it does or might. One aspect mentioned above that parallels my experience, is lather duration. It takes me 30+ min to shave as a new guy. Many of my soaps won't make it or will dry out too fast. Sure I can add water, but I'd rather not have to constantly.

I have shaved two times since I posted this. Using another type of preshave oil and also the other time using wipped shea butter. Both again allowed me to have a stupendous shave, and again with razors that were deemed dull and not shave ready.

I never knew how much the actual skin needs to hold moisture even with lather on it. During and after shaving for a while the lather still does stay wet and slick but at skin level the moisture is gone, I have no idea how this can be (maybe the heat of my skin is vaporizing the moisture out of my pores drying the moisture barrier in between the lather and the skin?) but I have proven with the barrier of oil or butter that the skin now retains the slickness and cushion for the razor.

I tried pre shave jelly and cream but they didn't have the staying power as the oil and butter did. Just thought I would through that in there.

I also wanted to point out if someone is have a rough shave it may not be the razor is could be the shave prep as I have found out. Hope this may help someone who may stumble upon this thread.

Thank you to all who posted, and I am thankful I don't have water as hard as Arizona lol...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrHouston

I've got hard water, so have gravitated to soaps that work well in hard water. I'd buy a soap that everybody loves (MWF) and it just wouldn't work for me. I spent 3 years DE shaving and finding my hard water soaps.

When I moved to SRs, I posted this questions about soaps for DEs vs SRs. LINK The consensus was that it didn't matter.

However, I am more in agreement of those on this thread that say it does or might. One aspect mentioned above that parallels my experience, is lather duration. It takes me 30+ min to shave as a new guy. Many of my soaps won't make it or will dry out too fast. Sure I can add water, but I'd rather not have to constantly.

---

Any soap that doesn't last is a defective product. Whether you DE or Straight Shave all the same qualities you need for one you need for the other. I don't buy the notion DE shaving takes less time so it doesn't matter if the soap barely lasts for the shave while a straight soap needs to last longer.

Honestly I know of no soap that truly lasts 30 minutes. Maybe shaving in a steamy bath but where I am with single digit humidity even the best soaps are taxed to not start to dry on the face after around 10-15 minutes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I don't buy the notion DE shaving takes less time so it doesn't matter if the soap barely lasts for the shave while a straight soap needs to last longer.

---

This is good to hear. I think our differences come from expert vs. novice, honorable senior moderator with 12 years on this site:bow.

I've mastered the DE, but have not hit my 100 shaves yet. I look forward to the time when I can choose DE or SR without having to choose DE because of lack of time. In the mean time, I need lather that is stable and slick for 8-10 minutes, for each of 3 passes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrHouston

This is good to hear. I think our differences come from expert vs. novice, honorable senior moderator with 12 years on this site:bow.

I've mastered the DE, but have not hit my 100 shaves yet. I look forward to the time when I can choose DE or SR without having to choose DE because of lack of time. In the mean time, I need lather that is stable and slick for 8-10 minutes, for each of 3 passes.

---

A very large contingent here (myself included) use a DE when we are in a hurry or are not in a concentrating mood. Very few can shave with a straight in the same time you can shave with most DEs and come out unscathed.

Hard water can definitely affect performance. Most artisan stuff out there is not suitable for straight razor shaving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrHouston

Snip.....In the mean time, I need lather that is stable and slick for 8-10 minutes, for each of 3 passes.

---

Why not try only lathering 1/2 of you face, or each cheek and then you neck separately and then shave that area. Then you will always have good lather

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dieseld

Why not try only lathering 1/2 of you face, or each cheek and then you neck separately and then shave that area. Then you will always have good lather

---

I like to think when you lather up the lather helps condition your whiskers so you start with the easier areas and progress to the harder ones giving the lather more time to work.

if you do it in quadrants then the rest of your skin dries and you lose the conditioning action and your basically starting from scratch with each area.

Word, I lather up my entire face at once, granted I don't take that long to shave

I let the lather sit / work the longest on the "hardest" parts, being my mustache area, I shave both sides of my face first and the goatee area last; I notice a difference if I shave it last or not, the lather does a great job softening things up, it's not necessary but it helps and I think it'll be a little easier on the edge as well.

I usually lather up entirely, shave one side, and then when going to the other side, put some water on my brush still filled with later and give the other side a watery lathery stroke over the existing lather, and do the same for the goatee area, works well for me.

Hard water is still a PITA though (:

I admit I have not read this entire thread. That being said, I wanted to do an experiment last night with my shave. I have hard water, bad hard water. So last night I tried using bottled water to soak my brush as well as make my lather. What I noticed, the lather seemed to be produced a bit quicker and of a better quality, it did not dry out as quick, and after a stroke the lather and whiskers seems to rinse off the blade easier. I honestly did not notice a slicker lather but a better lather. I am going to continue to try this with different soaps and such and see what happens. Last night was Co. Bigelow, cream in a tube.